You're wrong, Tammy, and need to study the NT closer because your version is novel, to say the least.
Well, it might not be mainstream, but it isn't novel. I mean, its even in the bible.
Why don't you show us where in the Bible? If it isn't mainstream, and preached by a fringe group, then it really is novel in light of orthodox teachings. Which religion teaches this?
But more than studying closer... the better thing to do would be to ask for understanding, and let the spirit teach, yes? Even if you have to keep asking, and listening, until you hear an answer? Because you might be judging an entire people wrongly, otherwise
No, actually that is what the Bible is there for, to teach us. Of course we ask for understanding, but as it relates to Scripture if that is where the answer lies. I'd rather not wait for voices whispering in my head. You need something a bit more concrete than that, and we have that already.
They can go to him, but only through the New Testament New Covenant.
The "NT covenant" is simply faith in Christ, right? So that would require going to Him.
It's not quite that simple, and from what you just wrote you seem to agree with me. It's the new arrangement between YHWH and spiritual Israel, which can include fleshly Jews, but only as Christians. Jesus said the only way to the Father, YHWH, was through him. If they deny Christ and don't "go to him," then they can't be parties to the New Covenant or have access to the Father. You seem to be saying that all it takes to be under the New Covenant is faith in him, which is required, but it goes beyond a mere form of belief if you don't abide by Christ's commands. Jesus said "whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him." John 3:36. If you have faith then you do x, y, z. "... whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father." John 5:23.
I go into great detail on the New Covenant right here:
http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-3.html#A
Belief alone, which is not the same as exercising faith, is not enough. If you read Hebrews carefully you'll see that Christ is the New Covenant, the Old Covenant is no more, and if you deny Christ, then you don't have faith and you can't be under the New Covenant, and that goes for the Jews, and anyone else for that matter. Furthermore, 2 Cor. 3:14 clearly states that Christ took away the Old Covenant. " ... through Christ it is taken away."
And "All Israel being Saved" refers to a) Christian spiritual Israel under the New Covenant, Jews and gentiles, and b) Jews in the future who come in under Christ, under the NC, and no other way.
If you read Paul's words, he seems quite convinced that ALL Israel will be saved. That Israel is hardened so that the full number of the gentiles can come in. All of Romans 11 takes this stance.
I have read Paul's words, but you can't read them in isolation, but in the context of what he also said elswhere, and what Christ said. Whereas all Israel will be saved, the standard by which they are saved is different now. In the Christian era, one cannot be saved by adhering to the Mosaic Law which is ineffective for attaining eternal salvation, especially since the Old Covenant is done away with. 2 Cor. 3:14. Their salvation is gained through Christ, only. Therefore, Paul's words at Romans 11 cannot mean that everyone who ever was a Jew will gain eternal salvation. It's not possible. And that is how Israel, the new spiritual Israel, is brought in. Hardened now, softened by accepting Christ Jesus later under the New Covenant. Nowhere in the NT does it state that all Jews gain eternal salvation by merely being fleshly Jews, especially if they are anti-Christ and deny Christ Jesus; especially if they lack faith.
Personally, I prefer to leave Israel's relationship with God... between Israel and God. I do not have the right or ability to judge that. They have been God's chosen people since a promise made to Abraham, and the son of that promise.
YHWH never promised Abraham that each of his descendants, regardless of their wickedness, would gain eternal salvation, especially if they denied the Christ. It is simply not in the Bible. Eternal salvation is impossible by adherence to the Old Testament Mosaic Law in the Christian era, and if Jews deny Jesus then they can't have faith in Jesus and Paul states clearly that by grace you are saved, through faith .. Eph. 2:9. Faith in Christ.
He came down, preached, made the rounds, and was rejected, stomped the dust off his feet and nailed the Mosaic Law to the cross with his blood sacrifice.
Yes, He was rejected. He did not DO the rejecting, and at any time anyone (JEW or Gentile) can go to Him. Even Paul said outright that God did not reject his people.
That's false, and you need to back that up with something. And you aren't reading what I wrote carefully. I never said Jews were prohibited from going to Him. I said the exact opposite. You're treating it as an all or nothing proposition, that God did not reject all OC Jews who ever lived. He did not, and will not, reject all Jews if they come to YHWH through Christ. God did not reject His people in the sense that he provided a different means of accessing Him. They have to reach out and approach through Christ like everyone else. Paul never wrote that those Jews who are anti-Christ, without faith, gain eternal salvation for their non-belief.
The rules of the game changed. And He did do the rejecting; it was one of the primary reasons for making the rounds in Israel. That is why he wept for Jerusalem. That is one of the reasons Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 A.D. Jesus commissioned the 12 to go to the lost sheep of the tribe of Israel. John 10:6. "Whoever will not receive you or listen to your words - go outside that house or town and shake the dust from your feet. Amen, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town." John 10:14, 15. Jesus didn't believe that "all Israel will be saved" even if they rejected him and denied him.
And if you study all the woes against the Pharisees and Sadducees, all the admonitions, all of the statements of how much worse it will be for them on Judgment Day, how to be aware of the false teachings, the crystal clear explanations that the Old Covenant Christ nailed to the cross, and much more, you can't really claim that all of physical Israel in the Christian era will be saved under the Old Covenant. A remnant comes in, but only under the New Covenant, under Christ. You cannot be anti-Christ, deny Jesus is the savior and gain eternal salvation. It's impossible. Christ, as God the Son, the God-man, and YHWH as that is understood in mainstream thought, did in fact reject those who reject him, those who attempt to get to the Father some other way. Remember all the woes and admonitions. Jesus even said their Father was the devil.
The religious Jews who rejected him were not "forgiven" but nevertheless somehow gained eternal salvation, as you appear to be claiming, and I would like to see in the Bible where you read this, if you would be so kind.
Forgiven for what they (those who handed him over, mocked him, tortured him, crucified him) did to Him... "Forgive them father, for they know not what they do.'
In light of everything I've explained, Christ on the Cross was addressing not all the Jews who had a hand in his death, but his statement was most likely limited to those Roman soldiers who were carrying out the execution. Notice that he didn't say that all those would be with him in paradise, he didn't say that of the second revolutionary hanging on the third cross. Furthermore, His statement does not even appear in the oldest papyrus manuscript of Luke and in other early Greek manuscripts and ancient versions of wide geographical distribution. (NAB Luke 23:34 Note.) This one statement can't be used to overturn everything Christ did and said, and what the other writers, including Paul, wrote in this regard. It can't overturn the clear meaning and intent of the Bible in this regard.
Can you show me where it is written that Christ and/or God cast the Jews off?
I believe I did just that. By eliminating the Old Covenant and inititating the New, He cast off the Jewish religious form of worship and faith, and instituted a new form of worship and an eternal salvation plan good to the ages. All are welcome, but not if they are anti-Christ, not if they deny Christ. They must exercise faith as that is understood. When the previously non-believing Jews do come into Spiritual Israel, every knee of theirs will bend as they confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Or they don't get in.
jonathan dough
JoinedPosts by jonathan dough
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225
Do you hate God
by Star tiger ini beginning to think that this would be a good way of thinking, a totally righteous being would not let all the shit that is happenning to people prevail, this being cannot have the best interests of man as his first priority, it's all about ego and no matter how the human familty suffers, he hates pretty much everyone, as the tv show says, your fired, let's get a better god, one who at least gives everyone a chance!!.
i welcome comments from god apologists, to at least have an argument as to why they put they're faith in someone that does'nt give a shit about them!.
star tiger.
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jonathan dough
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225
Do you hate God
by Star tiger ini beginning to think that this would be a good way of thinking, a totally righteous being would not let all the shit that is happenning to people prevail, this being cannot have the best interests of man as his first priority, it's all about ego and no matter how the human familty suffers, he hates pretty much everyone, as the tv show says, your fired, let's get a better god, one who at least gives everyone a chance!!.
i welcome comments from god apologists, to at least have an argument as to why they put they're faith in someone that does'nt give a shit about them!.
star tiger.
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jonathan dough
Just because Christ nailed the Mosaic Law to the cross, judged Israel and cast them off
Um... Christ never judged Israel OR cast them off. Never. He forgave them. He even said that they would see Him if they simply said blessed is He who comes in the name of Jah. They can go to Him at any time; answer the call at any time. And even Paul (a JEW) said, "All Israel will be saved."
He said that so that the gentiles would not become misled or arrogant.
You're wrong, Tammy, and need to study the NT closer because your version is novel, to say the least. They can go to him, but only through the New Testament New Covenant. And "All Israel being Saved" refers to a) Christian spiritual Israel under the New Covenant, Jews and gentiles, and b) Jews in the future who come in under Christ, under the NC, and no other way. He came down, preached, made the rounds, and was rejected, stomped the dust off his feet and nailed the Mosaic Law to the cross with his blood sacrifice. When Jews are saved, it's not under the Law, not under the Old Covenant which is works based. They can only be saved by grace, through faith, not by works. Eph. 2:8,9. We're talking about eternal salvation, here. Remember, Jesus said that "No one comes to the Father except through me" not the Jewish mosaic law. He also said "If you don't believe that I AM you will die in your sins." The religious Jews who rejected him were not "forgiven" but nevertheless gained eternal salvation, as you appear to be claiming, and I would like to see in the Bible where you read this, if you would be so kind.
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225
Do you hate God
by Star tiger ini beginning to think that this would be a good way of thinking, a totally righteous being would not let all the shit that is happenning to people prevail, this being cannot have the best interests of man as his first priority, it's all about ego and no matter how the human familty suffers, he hates pretty much everyone, as the tv show says, your fired, let's get a better god, one who at least gives everyone a chance!!.
i welcome comments from god apologists, to at least have an argument as to why they put they're faith in someone that does'nt give a shit about them!.
star tiger.
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jonathan dough
...And Jonathan again you are Wrong. Here's a tough one- do some homework, read Anti Semitism in the New Testament by Freudmann.
Now you're claiming the entire New Testament is anti-semitic? Come now. Just because Christ nailed the Mosaic Law to the cross, judged Israel and cast them off, initiated a New Covenant and started Christianity in motion doesn't make YHWH, or Jesus, or the apostles, anti-semitic as that term now is used by the Nazis and skin-heads, or anyone who hates Jews because their Jews, or blacks because they're black. Under your standard YHWH was anti-semitic when he sent Babylon to destroy the Jews in 587 and before. You're saying your version of YHWH is anti-semitic.
http://144000.110mb.com/607/index.html
Better yet go to your local Synagogue and ask the Rabbi about the Shema One God and how it is not the Triune One God of the Christians, or have moshe explain to you for the umptenth time how in his Conversion to Judaism (Geirut) he was asked to renounce things like the Trinity.
You're spinning your wheels. The fact that a Rabbi wrote a book claiming YHWH is not a triune God is his opinion, you've offered no proof discrediting the triune claim, and you're no closer to proving that the God of Jacob, YHWH, is not triune in nature. If you want to make the argument, do more than quote titles to books others have written and which you probably haven't read, and actually set forth some evidence, some proof. The same with Moshe renouncing the Trinity; it's beside the point and doesn't prove anything material with respect to what I wrote. If you bothered to read my post, you will see that I stated that even though the Jews don't believe YHWH is triune in nature, that's not relevant, it's immaterial. It's like saying "God doesn't exist because I don't believe he exists." The Jews' opinion that YHWH is not triune is not evidence with respect to whether YHWH is indeed Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Nowhere did I state that the Jews believed that YHWH was triune in nature. You need to pay close attention to what I actually wrote. What I said was that both worship the one God of the Old Testament, YHWH; the Christians recognize His triune nature, but the Jews don't. But it's the same YHWH, triune, regardless of whether the Jews believe that or understand that. Their YHWH is still triune.
Guess what despite your Groups best efforts to wipe the Jewish people off the face of the earth they (we) are here.
That's a lie. "Our group," Christians, Americans, Canadians, and other allies, spilled blood on your account during World War II, and a lot of it. We sacrificed our lives to save yours, with little thanks in return. If it wasn't for "our group" there wouldn't be a Jew in Israel today breathing. Who do you think is keeping Israel from being wiped out? The United States, its allies, and a triune God. Not that things won't go bad for Israel in the near future if you read Ezekiel Chapter 38-39 and elswhere. But to blame all of the Jews' woes on "our group" is narrow-minded, even if many of those persecutors dared to call themselves 'Christian."
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225
Do you hate God
by Star tiger ini beginning to think that this would be a good way of thinking, a totally righteous being would not let all the shit that is happenning to people prevail, this being cannot have the best interests of man as his first priority, it's all about ego and no matter how the human familty suffers, he hates pretty much everyone, as the tv show says, your fired, let's get a better god, one who at least gives everyone a chance!!.
i welcome comments from god apologists, to at least have an argument as to why they put they're faith in someone that does'nt give a shit about them!.
star tiger.
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jonathan dough
Jonathan-
Referring to Jews as antichrist is both anti-semitic and insulting. everytime I try to reason with someone who is a trinitarian it always comes down to the trinitarian is right, and everyone else is wrong.
Jonathan, Jewish people do not go around preaching to "Christians" and telling them that their belief in God is wrong. Jews believe the Jewish view of God is right for THEM. Jewish people don't tell Christians what to believe or not to believe.
But it is offensive to a Jewish person when a trinitarian tells them they are wrong in their beliefs.
I expected you to say that. First, it is not antisemitic in the least, and your feigned insult is the result of New Testament ignorance. Just criticizing and pointing out theological differences between Jews and Christians is not antisemitic. Look up the definition of "antichrist" in the Bible and you will see clearly that it is broad and includes those who deny that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who came in the flesh. Therefore, Jews are antichrist. Muslims are antichrist as well. As are atheists. I'm one of the least antisemitic people on the planet, believe me. I just don't like how some of them, like you, try to leverage their sad history and place a guilt complex on people who simply have opinions; people like you are no different than JWs who scream persecution when it is mere criticism. I'm not advocating another holocaust; please don't take that out of context, either. I'm just pointing out a clear definition in Scripture of the term "antichrist."
Secondly, you seem to be living in a box oblivious to history because the Jews did persecute Christians, slaughtered them even, because they believed the Christians' views of God were wrong. It went far beyond simply telling Christians they had the wrong idea of God, so you need to get your history straight. And I doubt seriously that no Jews today tell Christians their views of God are wrong - you're just making that up, and Designs will prove my point - or that this message is never preached at synagogue, or that Jews don't defend their beliefs in places like, say, message boards and online forums. And if I'm correct, one Jewish mandates is to convert and preach their faith, which means naturally, that explicitly or implicitly, part of that conversion process involves telling the other side they are wrong.
And third, if you're offended because we think you're wrong, that's your problem and you need to grow a thicker skin. Quite selfish and narrow minded to censor others and their opinions because you're offended. You're no different than the Company in this regard. I don't know what country you live in, but in the United States we have the First Amendment to the Bill of Rights that guarantees freedom of expression, and we have strong religious freedoms as well, which trump any offense you might have at being told something you don't wish to hear.
http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-5.html#25
“The Christian doctrine of the Trinity is that there is one God, who exists in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. These three persons share the one divine nature. They are equal, co-eternal and omnipotent. They are distinct from one another: The Father has no source, the Son is born of the substance of the Father, the Spirit proceeds from the Father (or from the Father and the Son). Though distinct, the three persons cannot be divided from one another in being or in operation (Oxford Dictionary of the Bible [New York, Oxford University Press, Inc., 2005] 1207) (Oxford). With minor changes, the reformed Protestant churches have essentially adapted the Catholic teachings on the Trinity Doctrine (see section 12).
Central to the doctrine that God is three Persons in one nature is the premise that “Jesus is God,” a term which causes great confusion among the Jehovah’s Witnesses who unfortunately do not understand what is meant by this Trinitarian phrase or what the Trinity doctrine teaches. One of their more bizarre errors lies in believing that Christ is a created angel who became man and after the resurrection reverted back to being an angel.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses have published countless pages of criticism of Christian Trinitarianism, teaching that it is the work of Satan and utterly illogical. This relentless attack, however, is based upon certain misconceptions and falsehoods allowing them to capitalize on many unsuspecting individuals’ ignorance of accurate Trinity dogma.Three of the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ false teachings are particularly misleading and form the core vehicle for the dissemination of gross distortions.
First, they do not understand that a "Person" is not a material human being like you or I. Persons of the Trinity are spirit. Secondly, they do not understand that God is "three" in one sense, and "one" in a completey different sense. And third, the Jehovah’s Witnesses are unwilling or unable to acknowledge or grasp the concept of the hypostatic union, the union that is the God-man Jesus, who is fully God the Son and fully man, a divine Person who assumed a human nature. Intertwined with this concept is the often ignored principle that the created humanity of Jesus is not God: “The humanity of Christ is a creature, it is not God” (Catholic Encyclopedia, 922). Accordingly, Jesus, the man in the God-man equation, could pray to His Father and acknowledge His Father’s superiority without committing any doctrinal contradictions. The Jehovah’s Witnesses, on the other hand, teach that the incarnate Jesus was nothing more or less than a man.This treatise begins by shining a light on the worst of the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ misunderstandings, and goes on to explain in greater detail what the Trinity doctrine actually teaches. From there, many of the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ arguments against the doctrine of the Trinity are disposed of in light of more accurate teaching, after which a further examination is made of scriptural support for the Trinity in the Bible.
A major section is then devoted to select Bible verses that prove that Jesus was, and is, God, followed by a brief summary of early Trinitarian theology which provides us with a better understanding of the doctrine’s foundation. The concluding section is devoted to the issue of Jesus Christ being a created angel.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses, whose religion is essentially 4th century Arian Subordinationism (see section 41) have said many things about the doctrine of the Trinity that are simply not true. Out of a sense of common decency and respect, those who propound and believe in the doctrine and people who seek to understand it better are entitled at a minimum to a fair hearing on the issues, which is the primary goal of this work.
But before you begin, it is very important to understand two simple concepts which lie at the heart of many of the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ errors; the difference between immanent Trinity and economic Trinity, and how they have commingled them, resulting in untold confusion even though it contravenes even their own teachings.
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jonathan dough
jonathan-
If you have all of these resources why do you keep saying the Christian god is the same as the Jewish God.
You might have a point considering the fact that Jesus said the Pharisees' father was the devil, and the Father of the lie.
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Help With The Societys View Of Jesus Ransom Applying Only To The Annointed.
by AvocadoJake ini have read bits and pieces about the wt saying jesus ransom sacrifice only applies to the annointed.
the annointed in turn, will be mediators between earth dwellers and jesus christ to jehovah.
to get to jehovah, we know we must approach him in jesus christ name, when did the gb become the middle men between jesus christ and those who think they will be living on the earth.
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jonathan dough
The Bible speaks of two distinct groups (other sheep, little flock), but nowhere does it say that Jesus' ransom applies to only one group. The Watchtower's doctrine of salvation through the Faithful and Discreet Slave is nothing more than an elaborate parlor trick.
-Sab
Nonsense. Regarding the other sheep and little flock, Christ said they would become one group under one shepherd, who are Jews and Gentiles, together as one Christian body. You might have misspoken. Nowhere does the ransom claim to apply to two separate groups at different times, in different degrees, in different places. Christ came to save the world, there is one faith, one hope, one baptism, one mediator. One kindgom of God, one people, one body, all of whom are a kingdom of priests, one holy nation. Because the earth shall be destroyed, and other reasons, all believers go to heaven. The ransom sacrifice is applied under the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34, which all believers are parties to, and which does not distinguish between its members. There is no such thing as two groups of Christians or two, or more, salvation plans as the JWs falsely teach. The Bible does not teach that the 144,000 JWs are saved by faith but the Great Crowd will be saved by works and educated to perfection as the Company teaches, incorrectly. http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-3.html#IVBBaii
The idea that there will be 144,000 in heaven ruling over a Great Crowd on earth is absolutely impossible and pure fiction.
http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html -
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Help With The Societys View Of Jesus Ransom Applying Only To The Annointed.
by AvocadoJake ini have read bits and pieces about the wt saying jesus ransom sacrifice only applies to the annointed.
the annointed in turn, will be mediators between earth dwellers and jesus christ to jehovah.
to get to jehovah, we know we must approach him in jesus christ name, when did the gb become the middle men between jesus christ and those who think they will be living on the earth.
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jonathan dough
I have read bits and pieces about the WT saying Jesus ransom sacrifice only applies to the annointed. The annointed in turn, will be mediators between earth dwellers and Jesus Christ to Jehovah. To get to Jehovah, we know we must approach him in Jesus Christ name, when did the GB become the middle men between Jesus Christ and those who think they will be living on the earth. What is the basis for the GB's tinkering with the New Testament, moving our Saviour further away from us. This subject makes my heart sink, moving the Kingdom of God. If Russell had issues with his second adventist (Barbour) friend about the "Ransom." how would he feel today, this multi-level marketing system of Jesus Christ's simple words. Peace to all you!
I wouldn't fret about it because their bizarre theories are unscriptural and have been discredited countless times. Even the protestants and Catholics don't take it this far, eventhough they might share a few similarities regarding exclusivity or application. As there is only one mediator between man and God, the so-called 144,000 can't mediate it, or apply the ransom to others. Period. The Bible is clear that the ransom sacrifice applies to mankind, not only to some select group of 144,000 JWs which do not exist. And the entire idea that only 144,000 go to heaven in the first place to rule over those on earth has been so completely discredited, the paradigm for their theology is nonexistent. The information provided here should clarify any doubts you might have about the 144,000. http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html
It's between you and Christ and YHWH. It's rather simple. Once you break down their building blocks you realize how incredibly wrong they are in most things. All believers are under the New Covenant, and Christ is the New Covenant. Discredit their New Covenant theory and the rest collapses as well. http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-3.html#C
Any notion that men on earth will be ruled, or reigned over, by 144,000 JWs from heaven is thoroughly debunked by the simple fact that the earth will become uninhabited after the great and mighty war that is destined at the Second Coming of Christ.
"Reign" cannot mean to rule over humans on earth, especially on an earth destined for fire and complete destruction which is made clear by 2 Peter 3:10,11: "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a mighty roar and the elements will be dissolved by fire and the earth and everything in it will be found out. ... everything is to be dissolved this way," (NAB; "Total destruction is assumed (11)," notes 3,10). "...the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat" (2 Peter 3:12). "But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men" (2 Peter 3:7). Peter's warning reemphasized Zephaniah's warning, where the ancient prophet transmitted the Almighty's words, "I will utterly consume all things from off the face of the ground, saith Jehovah. I will consume man and beast; I will consume the birds of the heavens, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumbling blocks with the wicked; and I will cut off man from off the face of the ground, saith Jehovah" (Zephaniah 1:2,3)
Complete destruction of man on earth is intended. " Their blood will be poured out like dust and their entrails like dung. 18 Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to save them on the day of the LORD’s wrath.” In the fire of his jealousy the whole earth will be consumed, for he will make a sudden end of all who live on the earth (Zephaniah 1:17, 18). The Jehovah's Witnesses theory that they alone, their great crowd, will survive Armageddon and be ruled from heaven by the 144,000 is simply not in accord with Scripture. -
225
Do you hate God
by Star tiger ini beginning to think that this would be a good way of thinking, a totally righteous being would not let all the shit that is happenning to people prevail, this being cannot have the best interests of man as his first priority, it's all about ego and no matter how the human familty suffers, he hates pretty much everyone, as the tv show says, your fired, let's get a better god, one who at least gives everyone a chance!!.
i welcome comments from god apologists, to at least have an argument as to why they put they're faith in someone that does'nt give a shit about them!.
star tiger.
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jonathan dough
To say though, that Jews have a distorted idea of God is judgemental and wrong! And since Jehovah is the creator and king of the universe and is all-knowing and allmighty I would hardly say He is limited.
You're twisting words and taking this out of context. If Christians are judgmental in believing the Jewish monotheistic non-trinitarian version of God is incorrect, then the same is true of Jews who think Christian views of a triune God is a distorted version. You can't have it only one way. Technically, Jews are antichrist by definition. Having an opinion is not being judgmental. If that is being judgmental then Christ and all the apostles and all Christian preachers are judgmental, but the Bible doesn't prohibit that because it doesn't fall within the NT definition. Telling people to "repent for the Kingdom is near" would be judgmental of a kind, but if that is the message, which it is, then Christ wasn't referring to that kind of opinion when he said "do not judge." And if you read what I wrote, I didn't say YHWH Himself is limited. Of course not, but the Jewish monotheistic version, from their point of view, definately is limited because it is only one-dimensional and non-salvific as Christian theology contemplates. The same is true of the JWs' distorted teaching and understanding of their nontrinitarian YHWH. It's limited. By claiming the Word was a mere created angel they insult God and bring the second person of the Trinity, the Word, the Son, down, when in fact He is God the Son, deity. You want to shift to the proper point of view. More info and lots of sites dealing with these issues right here:
http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/jesus_God_deity_jesus_christ_jehovahs_witnesses.html
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jonathan dough
It's hard not having anyone to talk and discuss/compare notes with
Try some Christian Forums. Plenty out there. And listen to the radio. Plenty of online resources here: http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/jehovahs_witnesses_research_resources.html
Online Bibles
http://www.internetdynamics.com/pub/vc/bibles.html
Internet Guide to Religion
http://www.wabashcenter.wabash.edu/resources/guide_headings.aspxNew Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious knowledge
http://www.ccel.org/s/schaff/encyc/encyc13/htm/TOC.htmCatholic Encyclopedia
http://newadvent.org/cathen/Encyclopedia of Early Church History
http://www2.evansville.edu/ecoleweb/biblegateway.com Commenteries
http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/
biblecommenter.com Commentaries
http://biblecommenter.com/ Jewish Encyclopedia
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/index.jsp
CARM Dictionar of Theology
http://carm.org/dictionary-theology-introReligion in American History
http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/tserve/divam.htmEncyclopedia of Religion and Society
http://hirr.hartsem.edu/ency/index.htmlPostmodern Bible Dictionary
http://www.bible.gen.nz/dictionary.htmBiblical Resources Search
http://www.markgoodacre.org/multibib/New Testament Gateway
http://www.ntgateway.com/Biblical Studies on the Web
http://www.bsw.org/World Wide Study Bible
http://www.ccel.org/wwsb/Resource Pages for Biblical Studies
http://www.torreys.org/bible/Bible Research
http://www.bible-researcher.com/index.htmlThe Unbound Bible
http://unbound.biola.edu/Liddell-Scott Greek-English Lexicon
http://old.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
http://www.biblestudytools.com/concordances/strongs-exhaustive-concordance/New and Old Testament Lexicons
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/
biblegateway.com
http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible
catholic-forum.com
http://www.catholic-forum.com/members/popestleo/bibleteachlinks.html
The Christian Library
http://www.christianlibrary.org.au/cel/documents/cults/06.html -
17
It's Time to Stop Saying...
by zengalileo init's time to stop saying that jehovah's witnesses do not accept blood transfusions.
it just isn't true any longer.
i have posted documentary evidence of jws world wide accepting whole platelets , whole plasma, whole white blood cells, their own whole blood after it being stored up to six hours, and evidence of them saying they are "very happy" that the courts ordered the transfusion of their children saving their lives.
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jonathan dough
Not always prohibited by the Watchtower Society in the past, the current prohibition against blood transfusions is more contentious and polarizing than few other issues pertaining to the Jehovah's Witnesses. Seen by most outsiders as a ghoulish mediaeval ritual reminiscent of the occult and finding no valid support in the Bible, the prohibition against receiving blood in the form of a blood transfusion is regarded by the Jehovah's Witnesses as a mandate, one of God's immutable laws.
As the information below illustrates, not only are the Jehovah's Witnesses' beliefs with respect to blood transfusions indefensible in light of scripture and tradition, the Jehovahs Witnesses beliefs' as put in to practice verge on the hypocritical; allowing the transfusion of some blood components but not others has become a deadly farce. Prohibiting blood transfusions based on snippets of scriptural text taken out of context and indifferent to sound, thoughtful biblical scholarship has caused untold misery and pain, and death; the senseless, unwarranted infliction of emotional distress on thousands.
The Jehovah's Witnesses' beliefs regarding the prohibition of blood transfusions becomes all the more heinous when it comes to young children, many of whom have died in furtherance of their parents' misguided beliefs. The blood transfusion prohibition is astounding in light of Jeremiah 32:35 which provides in part, "They built high places to Baal in the Valley of Ben-hinnom, and immolated their sons and daughters to Molech, bringing sin upon Judah; this I never commanded them, nor did it even enter my mind that they should practice such abomination." Here, God instructs man NOT to cause a child to be killed as a form of sacrifice to God. Clearly, sacrificing a child by denying him or her a needed blood transfusion is no different. In no way does such a denial of blood and the child's resulting death please the Almighty. It never entered God's mind.
Any individual contemplating joining the Jehovah's Witnesses religion is forewarned to research this issue carefully, study the history and biblical context of the blood prohibition and understand what it means to not 'eat blood' because the Jehovahs Witnesses beliefs with respect to this gruesome act is not approved by the Almighty, finds no reliable support in scripture and comes close to being a homicide or a suicide. Avoid the anguish for everyone involved and think clearly on this matter. The Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs on blood transfusions are not to be taken lightly.
jwfacts.com and ajwrb.org and marvinshilmer.blogspot.com are good beginnings.http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/jehovahs_witnesses_beliefs_blood_transfusions.html